Exclusive Interview With PR & Media Guru, Max Clifford

Max Clifford, Interviewed by David Lilley, Lilo Media International exclusively for Perspective Magazine

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Use the Media Player above to listen to the live unedited audio interview, or read the print version from the January 2008 Edition of Perspective Magazine below.

SIDEBAR INTRODUCTION

Max Clifford has been in the business of public relations protecting and promoting a wide variety of clients for well over 40 years. He has become as instantly recognisable as many of the stars he has represented over the years.

His views and comments are sought on a daily basis for the world’s media on a wide range of subjects and he regularly appears on TV and radio as a guest on current affairs, news, documentaries and chat shows. Also during the last 20 years he has become increasingly involved with many of the major front page stories in the British media. He now regularly breaks stories and stops stories in between orchestrating PR campaigns for a multitude of clients from all over the world and is also patron of two children’s charities and helps fundraise and supports many others. Often poacher and gamekeeper at the same time, he has helped save many a famous career from media damage and destruction. Increasingly during the last decade, he is approached by members of the public who seek out his help to get justice and awareness often when all other means have failed.

Maxwell Frank Clifford was born in April 1943 at Kingston Hospital, Surrey. He is the youngest of four children by his father Frank, an electrical engineer and his mother, Lilian, a full time housewife. The Clifford siblings were raised in South Wimbledon, London. When Max left his local secondary modern school at fifteen years of age, he had nothing but his Honours degree in street-raking. His first job, in a very old fashioned local department store, was totally unsuitable for someone with his temperament and attitude to authority and he soon became bored to distraction. Not surprisingly it was only a matter of time before he was sacked.

Max has always been an avid sportsman. He played football and water polo and boxed in his youth but now prefers to swim and play tennis. It was through the sport that he was offered a a job as a junior sports reporter on the Merton and Morden News.
Next stop was the EMI records press office in 1962, where practically his first assignment was to promote an unknown band from Liverpool called The Beatles. The rest is history…

In 1970 Max Clifford created MCA, his public relations company that has never to this day had to pitch for business, something that is probably unique for the public relations industry. Max’s philosophy is simple: “We don’t waste time talking about what we can achieve, we much prefer spending our time and energy achieving it. Like lots of things in life I’d rather do it than just talk about it.”

Well respected by the media, Piers Morgan, former editor of the The Mirror and TV pundit said: “I have a great deal of respect for Max Clifford, I can tell you that if I was in trouble, he’d be the first person I’d call.” Max says of his business: “The public relations side of my business is basically to set out and to create the best possible image for the many and diverse clients MCA represents. It’s interesting, stimulating, challenging and ever-changing, and infinitely preferable to having to work for a living.”

THE INTERVIEW

In light of the ever-evolving European Timeshare Sector and its struggle with negative press stemming back to its reputation of the late 80’s and 90’s and more recently by the practices of some “non-timeshare” Discount Membership Travel Clubs, Perspective International Ltd was granted an audience with PR & Media Specialist, Max Clifford to discuss ideas on how to tackle the media. David Lilley of Lilo Media International held the exclusive interview at Max’s offices in London.

David: Max, first of all thank you for making time for us today. I’m certain that all the British readers of Perspective Magazine will know all about Max Clifford and your company but for the benefit of those readers from around the world I’d like to talk a little about your life and your background, please tell us how you got into Public Relations?

Max: I got into PR by chance. I was a local journalist with a newspaper in the South London, Surrey area by the time I was 17.

I started a record column for the Group and at 19 I was headhunted by EMI Records. I worked in their press office and was given an unknown band to help launch called The Beatles. They went on to do quite well!

The contacts I had with the likes of Cliff Richard and Adam Faith allowed me to build up a very good relationship with people in the Media… not just in Britain. Obviously with the huge success of The Beatles within a couple years I had an amazing contact list worldwide.

Sid Gillingham, Chief Press Officer of EMI at the time who is in his 80s now and still a good mate taught me the importance of treating people the way you want to be treated. As I had worked on newspapers, I had good ideas for angles, news stories and press releases, but I was just extremely lucky. I was in the right time and right place. In the early days anyone that wanted information on The Beatles had to go through the EMI press office. So my part in their success story is nonexistent but their part in my success was huge.

David: From my own perspective, I think it would it be fair to say that I probably know you better than some of the celebrities that you actually represent. What was the tipping point for you as far as you are concerned - When do you think the celebrity status of your own started to happen?

Max: It’s been a combination of things. I think that some of the major stars that I’ve worked with; The Beatles, Sinatra, Mohammed Ali, Marlon Brando, people like that and more recently Simon Cowell (who is the biggest British TV Star in America now), people know that I am the man behind but I think increasingly with all the Television, Radio and Media interviews that I do worldwide about image and stories behind the stories have helped to make people more aware about me.

In an average week, I would probably do a dozen television interviews and 20 press interviews about different subjects, some for Britain, America, Australia, BBC World, Asia and Europe. So over the last 20 years, I have become better known, so even Journalists from Scandinavia and from America come to interview me about image and PR even though there are hundreds and thousands of other PR specialists all over the world. It’s just been a combination of things really but as you have said I have become as well known some of the people I represent.

David: Thank you for that background explanation. Of course today we are here to talk about the European Timeshare Sector. For a moment, I would like to ask you to switch off your PR mind and think like a pure consumer. When someone mentions Timeshare to you, stripping away your business experience, what is the immediate reaction in your mind and what imagines does it conjure up?

Max: Dodgy, be careful, warning signs. Most of the exposure to timeshare in Britain for the last 20 years has been critical of the industry. It’s been damaging. It’s been exposes, and whether that is a fair representation or not that is certainly the representation that timeshare has had in Europe, particularly in Britain. I would think that just about any member of the public out there, particularly if they haven’t had any previous experience of timeshare would naturally be very wary.

David: Have you had any personal experience of timeshare presentations?

Max: No, I have not personally. Because of who I am people tend to give me a pretty wide berth, but I have had experience of various timeshare issues over the years on both sides. People have come to me to complain and timeshare organizations have come to me to say that this is unfair. Traditional ‘timeshare’ has evolved Significantly over the last few years and companies like Club la Costa, ANFI and Marriot have grown and developed to incorporate a much more flexible system and to offer a much wider range of services and a higher quality product. So, as normally happens in my life, you find yourselves in the middle of both sides of the argument.

David: There is a little opportunity here. I am going to be very cheeky. If we could get you the opportunity to go on a timeshare presentation would you be happy to do that and give us your feedback?

Max: In theory yes. However, the problem I have, with all the people I look after and the kind of things I am in the middle of I think I have one evening free in the next 3 months up until Christmas…. what with Charity events too. I don’t have time to do anything that is the honest truth. But in principle I would look at doing it, particularly if I was to take a TV Crew along - that could be interesting.

David: Let’s consider that one for the future then. On the same theme Max, I think most adult consumers in this Country at least find themselves the target of phone calls and direct mail from timeshare operators. You say you have no experience of a presentation but have you been targeted by direct mail?

Max: Oh yes! You’ve won a prize if you phone this number you will win one of these wonderful prizes. I would just throw it in the bin. I wouldn’t even think about it because most of the people I know that have experienced these kind of things it has turned into a nightmare.

David: Interestingly. We are in your office now and we have been looking around at all of the pictures on the wall and all of the articles you have been involved in… The headlines that have broken, stories that you have played some hand in and it seems mainly celebrity type work.

What experience do you have in the area of being a PR provider for industries or companies? Has there been anything that your company has done over the years in this particular area?

Max: Yes, we have done PR for Property Companies, we have done PR for Banks, we have done PR for all kind of businesses because it is the same media that you are working to, whether you are representing a major star or you’re representing a major business.

I suppose an easy example that British people will know is Gerald Ratner, who shot himself in the foot and destroyed a very successful business years ago. Years later he came to me and said “Max, I want to launch a new business called Gerald Online and you are the only person that can take care of me” Having been destroyed by the Media and by what he said. I handled this in the way I tend to handle most things and now he is now making millions and millions of pounds from a new business. That is an easy example of something that we did on our own, and over 6 months we achieved hundreds and thousands of pounds worth of positive coverage and launched him on the way to making yet another fortune.

David: That’s interesting. Gerald was a keynote speaker at the Organization for Timeshare in Europe (OTE) Event a couple of years ago and his speech was a rip roaring success because people were really interested in him and how he turned a negative experience into a new positive. As you say, he actually made himself a laughing stock but he spun it around so it’s proof that it can be done.

So let’s focus right into timeshare now. In Europe there are roughly between 1100 and 1500 resorts that operate under the timeshare banner. Some of them are still selling timeshare and some of them are sold out. Those thousand resorts, let’s say for ease, are owned by 700 different legal entities.

How does an industry, with individual companies within it, on a basic level come together towards a common good? What advice can you offer?

Max: I suppose the word is for a “common good”. From my own perspective the only way you are going to get people like that to get together is if they think it is to their advantage and that the plusses outweigh the minuses. So it would take a governing body or someone that is at the heart of the industry to convince these people that it was in their interest.

Because of the name timeshare, it has to make their job, their opportunities and their businesses more successful. It needs explaining in the right way that this is a way to do it because their only interest is making money or making their business a success. Timeshare is obviously a massive operation.

David: We are going to come on to governing bodies in a second, in terms of the OTE, who are the Trade Association for the timeshare industry in Europe and they do a superb job in trying to change the perception of the consumer. However, before we get onto them, what they are doing and one of the tools that they have created that we could use I think very well with help from someone like you…

Max: One thing I would like to say instinctively is I have never heard of them?

David: …That’s interesting! We will come on to a survey that was done about recognition and clearly there is a job to be done there. What I would like to do again related to the same subject, is to talk about other industries that have had the same sort of troubled reputation over the years. I’m referring specifically, in years gone by, to the Double Glazing industry and also products like Life Insurance - we used to see problems about them on all the TV programmes. One of the things I have observed that those industries had in common was the “commission only” payment mentality. What are your own views on industries that pay on a commission only basis?

Max: The obvious instinctive reaction is that it’s all about success, and success equates to selling and not caring. So, if your only interest is selling and the only way you are going to make money is flogging as much as you possibly can, an awful lot of the people are going to do everything possible to sell and say anything because they don’t care about consequences. It doesn’t matter to them. So therefore it’s an irresponsible position to be in as they have got nothing to gain by being ethical and honourable.

David: Thank you. Back to the Organization for Timeshare in Europe (OTE). They are starting to do some superb work. In April last year, they carried out a survey on existing timeshare owners. I think that the last set of figures I saw there were up to 30,000 respondents. Approximately 71% were very happy with timeshare and 10% said that buying it was the best thing that they have ever done. These are only two of the static’s from that survey. There were many more positives, such as the quality of the accommodation, the space in the apartments, the fact that it compares well financially, especially if you were spending money every year on that standard of accommodation in the hotel industry. What would someone like you do with a superb survey like that?

Max: It’s very simple. You make people aware of it. They are not aware of that in my belief, in my instinct.

You can have the best message in the world but if no one hears then it doesn’t do you any good. So you have to make it very clear and that comes down to the relationship that someone has with the media.

You’ve got to get them interested. And you’ve got to make them really interested because good news isn’t news in Britain today. To make good news interviews, you need something very special, special circumstances or a special relationship with the Media. It’s not easy. It should be but it isn’t. We would much rather expose and destroy than praise and it sells papers. That’s part of British tradition and marketing has shown that.

Another obvious way to create effective PR is to get celebrities involved. Why? Because the media love stars and celebrities. I get coverage in all kinds of things purely by putting a star there. For example, by taking Simon Cowell to look at a property that is owned by one of my clients in Southern Spain, I’d get a double page spread in the Sunday Times. If you take Simon Cowell out of the equation there is not the same level of interest…pure and simple.

So good PR makes best use of celebrities. Its’ knowing your business. I take Stars to kids in Hospices. It’s very good for the stars publicity and the kids love it and that’s my key motivation in these scenarios. It’s exactly the same principle when you have a situation where you want to promote a property development. If you’ve got a development that needs promoting and we can find the right celebrity (and it’s got to be the right person for the right development) you approach them and reach agreement - We will give you and your family x y and z if you have some photographs taken here etc. All the development needs is for the celebrity to come down once a year over a weekend for pictures. The development and the celebrity get massive coverage and people think if it’s good enough for them then it’s good enough for me” or “He’s no fool, he knows what he’s doing so if he has signed up to it, it must be good” and just as important - the media want to write about it.

David: I’m a typical Northern lad and I like my Sun newspaper and The Mirror because I find them far more entertaining rather than the broad sheets, even though I do read them also for business reasons. Thinking about some of the celebrities that get exposure in this sort of tabloid and without naming names, do you really think there are some stars that could potentially be interested in endorsing timeshare? Do you really think if the price was right and they were comfortable with the product that they would be prepared to put their name to it?

Max: Yes of course! It’s not going to be a major, massive name but there are plenty of people out there that would fit the bill. There are plenty of people out there who are there or there abouts in the public eye that would do it if the product was credible and the price was right. For example, I had a situation years ago with an old mate of mine, Des O’Connor - There was a property company that I was involved with in Spain and I was trying to put together a deal whereby they gave him a property. It was a million pound property, but it would have cost them two hundred thousand to build and in return he was going to do the odd interview. Des is pretty well liked, respected and admired, I could have achieved hundreds of thousands of pounds positive coverage out of that, but eventually it didn’t work out in the end for various reasons. This would have worked particularly well with that older crowd…. the kind of people in their 50 or 60s that are retiring. “Yeah Des, he’s no mug”. It works; I have done it all over the world for forty years.

David: One last question on media. I am going to skip over to TV now. I think the worst type of bad PR is the content that appears on watchdog, the fly on the wall documentary type scenario. We have seen it for the timeshare industry, documentaries that are allegedly about timeshare, yet mostly they are actually not about timeshare. They are really about something known as a holiday club. This is very different to timeshare because there is no property that people are buying a share of, there is no bricks and mortar, it’s basically fresh air. Typically, there is huge sum of money paid and then the company disappear or fail to deliver the promise. That’s not timeshare but unfortunately it gets put in the same bracket by the media. If there was an incident whereby a TV campaign of this nature occurred or a TV documentary like this happened, what would you personally do with something as severe as that…. with something like 7 or 8 million of viewers seeing it that causes a real problem for the timeshare industry?

Max: You’ve got to act long before it is aired.

If I were representing the industry, representing the client then I would be aware of it before it was aired. I would speak to the Producer and I would try to prove that the story wasn’t justified. Often I can do that so the story doesn’t break at all.

That is the best form of damage limitation… it never appears because you are able to discredit the story and because you have that reputation, or you have that relationship with the editor or producer. An Interviewer is not going to get involved in a story that can be easily discredited. Such as “I know where this complaint is coming from and you must understand the kind of person making this complaint. He, she complained about this and that and even complained about the weather that we are not responsible for” In other words you then try to totally discredit the credibility of the people that are making those complaints. Often you can sense they are are troublemakers or because someone has had a bad deal, they are getting other people to stir things up…. the story behind the story.

To address this you use contacts. I use anyone that I can. I’ve got a lot of contacts in all kind of areas. This helps me to get to the reality of the situation. If a story does break, we can demand the right to reply. I will agree to appear on the show to respond for example, but I am also going to show everyone what has really happened…. the story that you didn’t show and the story that you didn’t tell. It’s not a one-way street. It doesn’t mean that I can win every battle of course but what it does mean is that they can’t walk all over the top of you. If you have no defence, you’re an easy target. If you have a defence they are going to be held to account.

David: On the subject of protection, what percentage of stories that break, break without you actually getting to know about them. I guess what I am asking is, are there things that you see in the papers where you think, S*** I wish I had known about that?”

Max: Of course. But I suppose I would have a better chance than anyone else. If it were one of my clients I would definitely know before it got to that stage. If it’s one of my clients they phone me first and say “Max this is what we’ve got.”

David: So, if I am interpreting this correctly Max,

If there was a timeshare client out there and you were happy to work with them, then the client would be on your database and there is a strong chance that if a story was about to break you might be able to stop it?

Max: Stop it or make the best of it and turn it around. If your timeshare operator is a crook then I would not be involved in that…

David: Absolutely, no way. I appreciate that.

Max: …but providing that I see and I believe that all the information I have is open and shows that isn’t the case. Of course, you’re going to get someone that is unhappy, you’re going to get a problem with a lot of people with the British attitude “I’ll find something wrong”. Sometimes if ninety things are right and only one thing is wrong that one thing is all you hear about.

Those are the kind of people I absolutely love to come up against. There is plenty of them and they destroy or can destroy the credability and the reputation of people that don’t deserve it.

David: Final question if I may. We are very grateful for the time you have given us today. It’s a personnel question? What type of holidays does Max Clifford and his family like? First of all, what do you expect from accommodation when you go away on Holiday?

Max: It’s easy - Just the very best of everything. No, I have a home in Spain, which is lovely. I love the place. I have had it for 7or 8 years its quiet and it’s close to everywhere. Because of the kind of people I look after, I’m in a slightly different situation, plus I never have a proper holiday. I’m always working anywhere I am. I’m in a fortunate position - If I wanted a suite in a hotel they tend to give them to me. So you’re spoiled. What do I look for? Somewhere that has lovely view, somewhere that is quiet but close to amenities and you know, lovely and clean, good food and guaranteed sunshine, nothing too much really… I’m very easily pleased!

I tend not to go too far because the years of flying all over the world are a long time ago and I resent all that wasted time. One of my biggest clients is Bombardier, they are the biggest private jet company in the world. I fly everywhere privately as much as possible. It takes away all the aggravation. I get to the airport 20 minutes before the flight. I get to the other end, which is normally Malaga or the South of France, North of Italy, the lakes and you walk through in 10 minutes. The more aggravation you get from air travel the more you want that. I like people. I love chatting to people. I like the fact that the better known I have become the more and more want people come up and chat and say Hello.

David: Do you always make time for people?

Max: If you’re up to eyes in it then you have to say “I’m sorry” but I like talking to people normally. People are great. They come up to me in a restaurant and say, “Hello Max how are you? And what do you think of this or that? I like that.“

David: I have seen quite a lot of interviews that you’ve done on GMTV. You always seem to do that from a place that looks like the garden at your House?

Max: That’s right. That’s because I don’t like getting out of bed in the morning. I hate it. I’m very good at sleeping, very bad at waking up. I normally sleep about 8 or 9 hours a night and yes that’s the deal. I say, “Yes you can come down and interview me”. They set up and give me 5 minutes notice, I’ll jump in the shower and put my shorts on do the interview and then I go back to bed.

David: On behalf Perspective Magazine and myself, thank you very much Max for this interview.

Max: No not at all. I hope it proves helpful for you.